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Did O'Reilly really Debate Mazza or was it "all about Psychological Abuse and Manipulation"? & "This ('… they haven’t even bothered to examine the Evidence …')

Replying to
Estefanía Acosta's comment was a reply to Aqua in this post: [https://nonvenipacem.com/2022/03/30/patrick-coffin-with-twelve-minutes-of-blistering-counterattack-against-voris-et-al-issues-challenge-for-open-debate-on-cmtv-to-expose-the-real-lies-and-falsehoods/ and https://twitter.com/CanoriMora/status/1510387414178713607]
 
Estefanía Acosta says:

O’Reilly will never “debate”. It’s all about psychological abuse and manipulation. He MUST be discredited and ultimately ignored, for the sake of the common good of the Church, the truth and true catholics (which he is not, obviously). That’s why Barnhardt’s podcast on the “debate” between Mazza and O’Reilly was so good and necessary: this man has to be exposed for what he is: an infiltrated destroyer of the truth about the current crisis of the Papacy.
All his claims about “everything is ok, it is not confusing at all that BXVI wears white, gives apostolic blessings, uses the title Pope Emeritus and so on…”. “Everything is ok”? “No confusion at all”? “There must be a “natural” explanation for all that”? (Like, for example, HIDDEN canonical norms by which “the two Popes” provided for such apostolic blessings by the Emeritus)… Yeah, right… Everything is ok and if you think otherwise you are conspiranoic… Psyop in front of us all… 

And then, of course, the claim that we, who affirm with moral certitude that the Pope is still BXVI, are “imprudent” and “destabilizing the Church”… Right… [https://nonvenipacem.com/2022/03/30/patrick-coffin-with-twelve-minutes-of-blistering-counterattack-against-voris-et-al-issues-challenge-for-open-debate-on-cmtv-to-expose-the-real-lies-and-falsehoods/]

From the comment section of non veni pacem The Splendor of Truth post:

Patrick Coffin with twelve minutes of blistering counterattack against Voris et al; issues challenge for open debate on CMTV to expose the real lies and falsehoods

  1. “ I really don’t understand why the people behind the scenes who are funding the Voris and Niles show are still funding them. ”

    It is not about the financial success, market ability, or audience appeal. That is not their mission. The money that goes into their coffers is meant to infiltrate and subvert the Traditional Catholic community. That is their purpose.

This (“… they haven’t even bothered to examine the evidence …”) is what I’ve noticed also.

Stephen O’Reilly of Roma Locuta Eat is the worst at this. He did to Prof Ed Mazza the same thing he’s done to me in exchanges I’ve had with him over the past few years. Completely, unequivocally, totally ignore everything I (or Ed) just said as if I (or he) weren’t even there.

At first, I just thought I wasn’t being clear enough – if I just re-phrased my point we could discuss that as rational Catholics. Nothing. Brick wall. I would engage him on his terms. He would engage me on his terms. And so I stopped visiting his site and wasting my time quite some time ago.

Then I watched him “debate” Ed Mazza on some podcast. I looked forward to seeing Mazza, and I looked forward to seeing how he engaged O’Reilly – and it went exactly how I expected. Ed Mazza was really interesting and I loved how he developed his ideas and how he logically, methodically, simply explained important complexity to a novice.

And then it was Stephen O’Reilly’s turn. He would start talking as if the previous 8 minutes of Ed Mazza hadn’t even happened. It was supposed to be a debate. Ed Mazza debated. Stephen O’Reilly expounded about himself. I could see, as a dispassionate observer, the precise same “technique” he used on Mazza as he has always used on me. He declares the other side wrong *without ever engaging that side and proving WHY it is wrong and how it is wrong*. And it’s not even a precise declaration of error as much as ignoring the essential point – because he never engages the “error”, the point being made by another person, before moving right along with the important work of talking about his own views.

I love a good debate. I love engaging with someone with whom I disagree and seeing whether I am wrong by carefully understanding the contrary and proving its falsity – or being prepared to accept its truth (which I’ve done on more than a few occasions over the years). It really, really bothers me … especially when it comes to a topic as crucial (existential) as the Papacy … to have someone so unserious that they can’t listen, understand, discuss, debate, learn – *together*.

And so – we remain where we were, in our ignorance and discord and a deformed disfunctional Papacy.

O’Reilly will never “debate”. It’s all about psychological abuse and manipulation. He MUST be discredited and ultimately ignored, for the sake of the common good of the Church, the truth and true catholics (which he is not, obviously). That’s why Barnhardt’s podcast on the “debate” between Mazza and O’Reilly was so good and necessary: this man has to be exposed for what he is: an infiltrated destroyer of the truth about the current crisis of the Papacy.
All his claims about “everything is ok, it is not confusing at all that BXVI wears white, gives apostolic blessings, uses the title Pope Emeritus and so on…”. “Everything is ok”? “No confusion at all”? “There must be a “natural” explanation for all that”? (Like, for example, HIDDEN canonical norms by which “the two Popes” provided for such apostolic blessings by the Emeritus)… Yeah, right… Everything is ok and if you think otherwise you are conspiranoic… Psyop in front of us all…

And then, of course, the claim that we, who affirm with moral certitude that the Pope is still BXVI, are “imprudent” and “destabilizing the Church”… Right…

The essence of my complaint was that he would never engage on the clear and unbelievably simple argument that Munus is the essence of the Papacy, Munus was acknowledged in the resignation letter as the essence of the Papacy, Munus is specified in Canon Law as the essence of the Papacy … but Pope Benedict XVI chose a different word, Ministerium, not mentioned anywhere else in his penultimate act.

It could not be any more simple than that.

One Pope at a time.

The Pope must die in Office (98% do that), or abdicate the Office (2% do that).

But that was crazy talk to him.

Much better to go down rabbit holes like the St. Gallen Mafia – behind-closed-doors influence theory – than consider a silly little thing like a faulty resignation statement that left him right where he was before he made it. That topic was closed, to O’Reilly. I speculate as to why, but decided further discussion was … unproductive. [https://nonvenipacem.com/2022/03/30/patrick-coffin-with-twelve-minutes-of-blistering-counterattack-against-voris-et-al-issues-challenge-for-open-debate-on-cmtv-to-expose-the-real-lies-and-falsehoods/]


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