Aqua said… A typical “debate” with Steven O’Reilly (I have had many of these things)... Debate ... pointless"
A typical “debate” with Steven O’Reilly (I have had many of these things):
Me: Pope Benedict is still Pope because he did not properly resign his Office. He only resigned his Ministry, not his office. It is clearly stated that way in his original Latin resignation text. He resigned Ministry. He specifically retained Munus. It’s right there ... on paper ... everyone can see it. That is substantial error. Canon 188. He remains Pope if he did not properly manifest a renunciation.
Steven: No, that would be substantial error. The Pope cannot separate his Office and Ministry. That is an error, substantial error and he can’t do it. Ontologically, that is not possible. Resignation valid. Not Pope.
Me: Right, I agree. He is in error, he can’t do it that way and that is why he objectively failed to properly resign according to Canon Law, Divine Law and he is still Pope.
Steven: No, he can’t do it like that, so it didn’t happen and he is not Pope.
Me: But he did do it and that is why he committed substantial error, failed to resign properly and is still Pope.
Steven: He didn’t do it because he can’t do it. If he did do it it would be substantial error and he can’t commit that error for the resignation to be valid. He resigned both because he has to and he is not Pope.
Me: Right, it is a major error. That is the whole point. He committed error and that rendered his resignation invalid. Still Pope.
Steven: No, he can’t do that. It is error. Substantial,error. You can’t divide the ministry and munus. Resigned completely. Even though he said he didn’t, he did. Because he has to. Not Pope.
Me: But that is what he clearly said in his resignation. That is impossible to resigns partially, as you say, so his resignation is not valid and so he retains his prior state as Pope.
Steven: He can’t have said that because that would be substantial error. Please see my web site to understand my further explanations on how this is all substantial error and is not possible according to Canon Law. Not Pope.
Me: But we already agree it is an error. Textbook definition of Canon 188 substantial error. So he is still Pope.
Steven: Yes, that error is not possible, which means he didn’t make an error, because it can never be. So his resignation was valid which is why he is no longer Pope.
13: Aarrrggghh!
Debate ... pointless.
Me: Pope Benedict is still Pope because he did not properly resign his Office. He only resigned his Ministry, not his office. It is clearly stated that way in his original Latin resignation text. He resigned Ministry. He specifically retained Munus. It’s right there ... on paper ... everyone can see it. That is substantial error. Canon 188. He remains Pope if he did not properly manifest a renunciation.
Steven: No, that would be substantial error. The Pope cannot separate his Office and Ministry. That is an error, substantial error and he can’t do it. Ontologically, that is not possible. Resignation valid. Not Pope.
Me: Right, I agree. He is in error, he can’t do it that way and that is why he objectively failed to properly resign according to Canon Law, Divine Law and he is still Pope.
Steven: No, he can’t do it like that, so it didn’t happen and he is not Pope.
Me: But he did do it and that is why he committed substantial error, failed to resign properly and is still Pope.
Steven: He didn’t do it because he can’t do it. If he did do it it would be substantial error and he can’t commit that error for the resignation to be valid. He resigned both because he has to and he is not Pope.
Me: Right, it is a major error. That is the whole point. He committed error and that rendered his resignation invalid. Still Pope.
Steven: No, he can’t do that. It is error. Substantial,error. You can’t divide the ministry and munus. Resigned completely. Even though he said he didn’t, he did. Because he has to. Not Pope.
Me: But that is what he clearly said in his resignation. That is impossible to resigns partially, as you say, so his resignation is not valid and so he retains his prior state as Pope.
Steven: He can’t have said that because that would be substantial error. Please see my web site to understand my further explanations on how this is all substantial error and is not possible according to Canon Law. Not Pope.
Me: But we already agree it is an error. Textbook definition of Canon 188 substantial error. So he is still Pope.
Steven: Yes, that error is not possible, which means he didn’t make an error, because it can never be. So his resignation was valid which is why he is no longer Pope.
13: Aarrrggghh!
Debate ... pointless.