Fred,
Okay...by my count, you've asked me 5 + 1 Dubia. So, I figure, there are six dubia of mine you must answer.
Here is the first:
1.
A central component of Dr. Mazza’s thesis “3.0” is that Ratzinger
erroneously believed in some way that the papacy was a sacrament, and
thus, it could not be lost. Dr. Mazza expounded on his thesis, during
his Coffin show appearance, citing two Ratzinger texts, the first being
from “Principles of Catholic Theology.” In support of his thesis, Dr.
Mazza paraphrased Ratzinger from this book as follows:
“What
does Joseph Ratzinger say? He says, “No, no, no. “I disagree with those
people who say the papacy is not a sacrament, that it’s only a juridical
institution. That juridical institution has set itself above the
sacramental order.””
[Patrick Coffin Show. Time: 30:00; Unofficial transcription by O’Reilly]
Now,
An extended citation* from Principles of Catholic Theology that Dr.
Mazza briefly referenced is provided in my article. It won't fit in this
comment box.
Fred, You can find the extended quote with BOLD
emphasis, which might make it easier to see the point I am making. You
may find that in my article
https://romalocutaest.com/2022/02/21/regarding-benedicts-declaratio/.
Find the quote under The Reply to Objections 2.1 and 2.2.
What is
apparent in the extended citation, Ratzinger is speaking on the subject
of ecumenism between East and West. Ratzinger is clearly speaking of
the Eastern Orthodox Church in the text, and that he is describing their
(negative) view of the development of the papacy and Western Church,
e.g., that “I should like to indicate in a few words how this impression
has arisen in the East. For such a view..."
Therefore, is it
the case Ratzinger is describing the Eastern Orthodox negative
assessment of the papacy and Western Church when he writes: "The old
sacramental structure seems overgrown, even choked, by this new concept
of the law: the papacy is not a sacrament, it is “only” a juridical
institution; but this juridical institution has set itself above the
sacramental order"?...
...Consequently, Is it the case that Dr.
Mazza misstated and or misunderstood what the text is actually saying
when he suggested to Dr. Coffin and his audience that Ratzinger here
“disagrees with those who say the papacy is not a sacrament...” when in
fact Ratzinger is merely describing the Eastern Orthodox negative
impression of the papacy and the Western Church? Yes or no.
Fred Martinez's answer: I can't answer that until I clearly see what Dr. Mazza's answer is to your above statements and check if they are accurate or inaccurate.
here is my second dubia to you.
2. When a
man is first elected in a conclave, he is asked if he accepts his
election as Supreme Pontiff (cf UDG 87, as amended in Normas Nonnullas
87). Thus, accepting his election as Supreme Pontiff, the man elected
acquires the Petrine office and or “Petrine munus.” Thus, the Petrine
office or Petrine munus is associated with *being* Supreme Pontiff of
the Catholic Church.
On February 28, 2013, just a few hours
before his effective resignation, Pope Benedict XVI spoke to a group of
pilgrims from Albano, to whom he said: "I am no longer the Supreme
Pontiff of the Catholic Church, or I will be until 8:00 this evening and
then no longer.” Did Pope Benedict XVI at that moment believe he would
no longer be Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church after 8PM that
evening, and thus, after 8pm no longer holding the Petrine office or
“munus” associated with *being* Supreme Pontiff -- something he had
accepted upon his election as supreme pontiff, and of which he had just
said, ‘I am no longer Supreme Pontiff…” after 8pm that evening? Yes or
no.
Thanks.
Steve O'Reilly
www.RomaLocutaEst.com
Fred Martinez's answer: Yes, unless he was in substantive error or was forced to resign.
"'Pope's Theologian" Kasper said "'a Forced Resignation would be Invalid...
Cardinal Kasper is the 'pope's theologian' - National Catholic Reporter...
If Pope Francis Resigns, It Will Not Be ...patheos.com
If Pope Francis Resigns, It Will Not Be Valid. The Church Will Have an Antipope
Canon 332 tells us why. “If it happens,” the canon says, “that the Roman Pontiff resigns his office, it is required for validity that the resignation is made freely
and properly manifested.” If the pope resigns under the pressure of a
public campaign in the media, he does not act freely. Consequently the
resignation is not valid. Consequently any one elected by a conclave is
an antipope. - Patheos [https://www.patheos.com/blogs/scottericalt/if-pope-francis-resigns-it-will-not-be-valid/]
The "close" friend of Pope Benedict XVI, Archbishop Luigi Negri, has said the Benedict decision to resign was a result of “tremendous pressure”:
"An Italian archbishop close to Pope Benedict XVI says the former pope decided to resign as a result of 'tremendous pressure.'”
[... ]
“I am certain that the truth will emerge one day showing grave liability both inside and outside the Vatican.”Negri said:
“It is no coincidence that in America, even on the basis of what has
been published by Wikileaks, some Catholic groups have asked President
Trump to open a commission of inquiry to investigate whether the
administration of Barack Obama exerted pressure on Benedict.”[https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/italian-archbishop-pope-benedict-retired-due-to-tremendous-pressure]
What might Francis's "close collaborator" Cardinal "Walter Kasper, [the] 'Pope's Theologian" think of a "close" friend of Pope Benedict XVI saying Benedict decided to resign due “tremendous pressure”?
In 2019, LifeSiteNews reported:
"Cardinal Walter Kasper – a close collaborator of Pope Francis – has
expressed concern over a possible attempt at removing the current Pope
from office but makes it clear that 'a forced resignation would be invalid.'”
[https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/news/cardinal-kasper-a-forced-resignation-of-pope-francis-would-be-invalid#ampshare=https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/cardinal-kasper-a-forced-resignation-of-pope-francis-would-be-invalid]
In September, Reuters made the same statement saying that if pressure is
put on "Pope Francis to resign [it] could make it difficult, if not
impossible, for him to do so, Church experts say.":
“'The pope has the right to freely resign. That’s what the canon says.
The doubt is whether the situation Francis is in now really allows for a
free choice because there is a political faction in the Church trying
to force it,' said Nicholas Cafardi, former dean of Duquesne University
School of Law."
“'I don’t see how (the pope can resign freely) when you have people
campaigning for it,' said Cafardi, who is also a former member of the
Board of Governors of the Canon Law Society of America."
[https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1LN1IL#ampshare=https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-abuse-law/can-the-popes-accusers-force-him-to-resign-idUSKCN1LN1IL]
If Kasper, Reuters and canon law expert Cafardi are right that it is "difficult, if not impossible" for a pope to resign "if a political faction in the Church if trying to force it" then Pope Benedict XVI probably, if not for sure, is still Pope which would mean Francis is not a valid or real pope.
Was there "a political faction in the Church trying to force" Benedict
to resign which put into "doubt... whether the situation [Benedict
was] in... really allow[ed] for a free choice" as Cafardi said to
Reuters?
Was Benedict's stepping down "a forced resignation [which] would [make it] invalid" according to Kasper?
Was there "a political faction in the Church trying to force" Benedict to resign?
Respected pro-gay Italian journalist Emiliano Fittipaldi, one of two
journalists charged in the Vatileaks trial in the Vatican court for
obtaining confidential Church papers, inferred that "a political faction
in the Church [was] trying to force" Benedict to resign:
“Ratzinger [Pope Benedict XVI]... was very traditionalist and
conservative... but he did important things. The things he did in
relation to pedophilia, which was not much, but double the time for
prescribing crimes in the Vatican, sent away almost 600 priests in a few
years. The incredible thing is that Francis did a lot less."
"... The story of the gay lobby has... importance in the
Vatileaks and the dismissal of Pope Ratzinger... He destroyed the
careers of those who were with them. To stop this group, a group of supporters of Ratzinger began to issue a series of documents, which was called Vatileaks...
He destroyed the careers of those who were with them. To stop this
group, a group of supporters of Ratzinger began to issue a series of
documents, which was called Vatileaks. I can say this shock, this war of [Vatileaks] documents led to the end of Ratzinger."
"... Ratzinger made... war against pedophilia... [h]e just started and resigned."
[https://www.comunidadeculturaearte.com/emiliano-fittipaldi-para-francisco-a-pedofilia-e-uma-questao-secundaria/]
The liberal Maria Antonietta Calabrò, who is considered
a well-informed and highly respected Italian journalist, reported
another link to Vatileaks related to Benedict's resignation which was an "2012 obscure threats after a trip to China of another prelate [pro-gay Cardinal Paolo Romeo]. And that document ended up in the first Vatileaks.":
[T]he predecessor of Francis, Pope emeritus Benedict
XVI, also a extensor of an open letter to Chinese Catholics, received at
the beginning of 2012 obscure threats after a trip to China of another
prelate. And that document ended up in the first Vatileaks scandal.”
[Italy’s HuffPost (link), ESTERI 26/09/2018 16:25 CEST | Aggiornato26/09/2018 16:26 CEST Papa Francesco, il caso Viganò e il “segno di Dio” che ha accelerato l’accordo con la Cina]
According to a commenter on the Catholic Monitor this "obscure threats
after a trip to China of another prelate' caused "Benedict XVI [to]
renounce [resign]":
"Cardinal Dario Castrillón Restrepo, who was an extremely important
Cardinal especially during JP II's & Benedict XVI's pontificates,
and was a key negotiator during several world crisis like the cold war,
was interviewed by Colombian Television Channel "Caracol". The video
was uploaded on youtube May 10, 2018 and Cardinal Dario passed away May
18, if I remember correctly. So, this interview was very timely, only a
few weeks before his death. In that interview, Cardinal Dario admits
that he was the one who had received a very painful letter "written in
chinese" which urged him to hand-deliver the letter to the Holy Father
(Benedict XVI). Cardinal Dario said the letter contained the most
horrific threats beyong imagination. So much, that it was too much for
the Holy Father to bear and for that reason, said the Cardinal, His
Holiness Benedict XVI renounced. Cardinal Dario says Benedict XVI
renounced only months after he read the letter. He mentioned that after
he read the letter, both Cardinal Dario and His Holiness Benedict XVI
vowed to keep it a secret between the two, but Cardinal Dario said that
'someone knew and told everyone.'"
"So, the question about China being involved? Hmm..very likely?? FYI,
the link to the video interview on youtube says the video is no longer
available in our country (U.S.)"
[https://catholicmonitor.blogspot.com/2018/09/is-there-vatican-gay-lobby-and-chinese.html?m=1]
What did the media report about this "2012 obscure threats after a trip to China of another prelate" and about that prelate: pro-gay Cardinal Romeo?
The radical gay New Ways Ministry, who are notorious dissenters
according to a 2011 US Bishops statement, revealed in 2012 that Cardinal
Paolo Romeo apparently was part of the Vatican gay lobby:
” GayStarNews reports:
“Three Italian Catholic cardinals have agreed to prayer vigils held by the religious group Gionata for the victims of gay hate and discrimination for the first time.“LGBT groups will pray for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in Milan, Florence and Palermo, in Sicily as part of the International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia (IDAHO) to be celebrated . . . in an estimated 100 countries around the world. . . .
“Cardinal Paolo Romeo, in Palermo, . . . [has] backed it, even though he banned the vigil last year. The liturgy there will be celebrated at 9pm . . . in the San Gabriele Arcangelo church.” [https://www.newwaysministry.org/2012/05/17/three-italian-cardinals-support-prayer-vigils-for-international-day-against-homophobia-and-transphobia/]The pro-gay Romeo, after coming out of the closet about supporting LGBT “liturgy,” in China, according to news reports, spoke of an assassination threat on Pope Benedict XVI to “Italian businessmen and Chinese representatives of the Catholic Church” according to the Telegraph in 2012:
“Cardinal Romeo reportedly made the startling prediction of the Pope’s death during a trip to China in November 2011.”
“He seemed so sure of the fact that the people he spoke with, including Italian businessmen and Chinese representatives of the Catholic Church, were convinced that he was talking about an assassination attempt.”
“… The extraordinary comments were written up in a top-secret report, dated Dec 30, 2011, and delivered to the Pope by a senior cardinal, Dario Castrillon Hoyos, a Colombian, in January.”
“The Vatican has reportedly opened an investigation into the claims.”
“The report was written in German, apparently to limit the number of people within the Vatican who would understand it if it was inadvertently leaked.”
“It warns of a “Mordkomplott” – death plot – against Benedict.”
“‘The story was broken on Friday by an Italian daily, Il Fatto Quotidiano, with the headline ‘Plot against the Pope – he will die within 12 months'”.
“The newspaper, which has a reputation for scoops, published a page from the confidential report [Vatileaks]. ‘During his talks in China, Cardinal Romeo predicted the death of Benedict XVI within 12 months. His remarks were expressed with such certainty and resolution that the people he was speaking to thought, with a sense of alarm, that an attack on the Pope’s life was being planned,' the paper reported.”
[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/9073811/The-Pope-will-die-within-a-year-Vatican-assassination-fears-revealed.html]
The newspaper with "a reputation for scoops" II Fatto Quotidiano, Fittipaldi and Calabrò appear to be linking Vatileaks to strange happenings against Benedict.
Were Vatileaks and the Vatican financial scandal as well as the Vatican gay lobby tied together as the causes that "led to the end of Ratzinger [Pope Benedict XVI]"?
Apparently, Vatican expert Dr. Taylor Marshall says that if Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano is telling the truth then Fittipaldi's inference appears to be true.
On August 27, author and philosopher Marshall on YouTube in the video titled "Dr. Taylor Marshall ties together Vatican financial scandal with homosexual activity" summarized what led to Pope Benedict XVI's resignation and Pope Francis's papacy:
If Vigano is telling the truth then the Vatican gay lobby paired with the Vatileaks financial scandal apparently caused Pope Benedict XVI's resignation and it appears that Pope Francis has "reinstated and promoted" all those who brought about the resignation.
Marshall, on YouTube, summarized what led to Benedict's abdication:
"First of, Vigano blew the whistle on money laundering."
"Two, the accusations of money laundering leads to the Vatileaks scandal."
"Three, the Vatileaks scandal leads Benedict to form a secret investigation with three cardinals."
"Four, those three cardinals expose moral rot, sexual deviancy, that is paired up with financial irregularity."
"This is what moves the Pope to resignation. And just to make sure there is enough pressure on him to do it and do it quick something funny goes on with the Vatican Bank beginning on January 1, 2013."
"And it seems the powerful cardinals within Vatican City wanted it to happen fast because they don't want the 300 page dossier released to the public because there is moral scandal in those pages."
"That binder was left with Pope Francis, but nothing has been done. And what we see is that those who were oppose to Benedict XVI theologically, but also on administration, have been reinvolved, reinstated and promoted."
Here is more evidence that Benedict was forced or pressured to resign.
Remember Benedict's resignation came about because of the "[gay] sexual deviancy, that is paired up with financial irregularity" tied to Vatileaks which was apparently orchestrated by the Vatican gay lobby supposedly to "reform the Vatican Curia."
According to the Italian website Corriere Della Sera Chronicles:
"Vatican City Father Silvano Fausti [the confessor of Cardinal Martini] said that the moment had been when Benedict XVI and [the most powerful pro-gay cardinal in the Church] Carlo Maria Martini saw each other for the last time... June 2, 2012... Martini, who died on August 31st, said to Ratzinger: Curia does not reform, you just have to leave... on 11 February 2013 [Benedict] declared his 'renunciation' to the pontificate."
(Corriere.it, Corriere Della Sera Chronicles, "When Martini told Ratzinger: the Curia does not change, you have to leave," July 18, 2015)
Moreover, the Italian website which has expertise on the Vatican, Monday Vatican reported:
"Fr. Silvano Fausti, a Jesuit who was Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini's confessor... recounted... their [Benedict and Martini's] last meeting... According to Fausti, Martini said this to Pope Benedict as if he were reminding him of an old agreement agreement between them. That resignation paved the way for Pope Francis, whom Fr. Fausti admires."
"But this story must be decoded... Benedict XVI's pontificate was constantly under attack at every level. The old hands of the Curia, in particular, could barely stand his rule."
(Monday Vatican, "Pope Francis: How the Narrative around Him was Constructed," Luglio 20, 2015)
"An article by Italian journalist Maurizio Blondet is making the rounds alleging that Pope Benedict XVI was blackmailed into abdication by forces allied with SWIFT (the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication), which had a hand in the shutdown of ATM and bank card services at the Vatican in January of 2012."
"According to Blondet:
There was a blackmail of Benedict XVI, coming from who knows where, through SWIFT. The underlying reasons for this have not been clarified, but it is clear that SWIFT has intervened directly in the management of affairs of the Church..."
"...It strikes me as interesting that more attention isn’t being paid to
the role played by Ronaldo Hermann Schmitz, the acting President of the
IOR [Vatican Bank] Board at the time, given his ties to Deutsche Bank."
"I mean, one would think that the former Deutsche Bank Executive
Director, even if unable to leverage his contacts within the German
banking giant to forestall such a drastic move, would have at the very
least been well aware of what was coming and could have perhaps taken
steps to secure the services of another financial institution, as
happened in short order soon afterwards."
"This leads me to wonder where Ronaldo Hermann Schmitz’s own interests may have lied as this was taking place."
"Let me be clear; I have no information implicating Schmitz in any
nefarious activity; I am simply making common sense observations and
asking questions that, curiously enough, have apparently never been
addresses by those in the media; in spite of the extensive coverage
these events received."
"In any case, one is still left to wonder what motivated Gotti Tedeschi’s removal."
"Given that the reform of the IOR [Vatican Bank], for all intents and
purposes, was all but halted while interim President Schmitz acted as
caretaker until a new President could be found, one might assume that
this interruption alone was the primary motive."
"It seems rather clear for reasons addressed below, however, that the
motive went well beyond simply protecting the interests of those whose
financial improprieties Gotti Tedeschi was laboring to uncover, making
it seem far more likely Gotti Tedeshi’s demise was undertaken in order
to set in motion the events that would secure the abdication of the man
who appointed him."
"Circumstantial evidence strongly attesting to this being the case can
be found in the fact that the Vatican reached an agreement with a Swiss
firm to resume ATM and other bank card transactions effective February
12, 2013, just one day after Benedict XVI announced his intention to abdicate.
Indeed, as far as I can tell, nothing of note had changed between the cessation of bank card operations on January 1st and their resumption on February 12th
relative to the Vatican Bank’s compliance with international banking
standards. Rather, the only noteworthy thing to change was the status of
Benedict’s pontificate."
"Further evidence suggesting that the motives for Gotti Tedeschi’s removal extended beyond mere financial concerns." [https://akacatholic.com/money-sex-and-modernism/]